Topic TV 4K et le 4K en General !

[tprince]

des précision sur le Dolby vision : en anglais désolé :

DOLBY VISION/HDR10 FORMAT WARS UPDATE , Q/A With John Archer on his meeting with dolby today


Okay so ive been chatting with John Archer of Forbes for the past month or so and been kinda talking back and forth about HDR, hes got a test JS9500 that he keeps in his work room at his house. Hes got 20 years of experience of reviewing tvs, so he certainly gets good info.

being at CES, I asked him some questions and shared some concerns that consumers have regarding HDR10 and DOLBY and how this will play out in the real world in our homes. And since he had a meeting today with Dolby at CES, he said he would try to get to the bottom of what happens when you play Dolby Vision on a non dolby tv that can only do HDR10, and what happens when we try to watch a DV movie that is streamed on say vudu, netflix, or whatever site offers dolby.

Heres how it went, i summarized my questions to make it easier to read:



ME: Hey John, any way you can find out if HDR10 will ride along with DV? We know that disc must include both versions, but what about streaming? There is much confusion about how this works.


** Johns Meeting with dolby at 130pm vegas time/430pm ET***


JOHN: Dolby assures me that you will still get an HDR experience with Dolby Vision sources, streamed or disc. You just won't get the full DV experience. For instance, no dynamic meta data for shot by shot HDR precision.

ME: So even without DV ability, an HDR10 tv will still get the baseline of hdr?


JOHN: That's what Dolby said, yes. Have them recorded for good measure! There was talk of the likes of Netflix maybe turning off legacy support 'layers' to save bits in the future, but this would apparently be many years away.

ME: So dolby vision is essentially an extension of hdr10 that rides along? That sound right?


JOHN: Well, Dolby would rather say HDR10 is something they can scale down to in their system, but in principal you are right. The exact implementation could vary from streamer to streamer, though. But legacy support will be there..


There you have it. Dolby says an HDR10 tv will still get an HDR experience even if they do not have a DV tv. John also mentioned that he recorded the entire conversation he had today with Dolby, so they knew they were completely on the record.

Also, there is a js9500 owner that has worked in the studio when they were grading DV and HDR10. he says that unless you use a professional monitor, youd probably have a hard time telling the the 2 apart as they share alot of the same characteristics. So as long as you get HDR10, i think you'll be very happy with what UHD blu ray has to offer.

[sandman89]

C'est plutôt rassurant j'avoue.

[DanBa]

Also, there is a js9500 owner that has worked in the studio when they were grading DV and HDR10. he says that unless you use a professional monitor, youd probably have a hard time telling the the 2 apart as they share alot of the same characteristics. So as long as you get HDR10, i think you'll be very happy with what UHD blu ray has to offer.

Csbooth, le type qui a un Samsung JS9500 et qui supervise le mastering des 1ers films Dolby Vision, écrivait plutôt :

"I've had the pleasure to oversee Dolby Vision HDRI of Man of Steel, The Lego Movie, Into the Storm, and Edge of Tomorrow. Let me say it one last time,... ALL MOVIES BEING GRADED IN HDRI NEED TO HAVE A BASE LAYERED ST SMPTE 2084/86 OPEN SOURCE. Which all of Samsung's SUHD models adhere to. I'm not going to debate the intricacies of how well each model does at this time, as they all achieve HDRI with a WCG and make noticeable achievements in PQ.

This is something that has been set for over a year now; and people that keep stating there is no standard yet, I know at least 3 of you have seen my posts regarding it and still choose to state incorrect information...STOP.

Regarding DV/Technicolor/Philips/BBC ect...Don't ever expect a secondary layer standard, but with that said, I'm personally in the camp that believes that DV will prevail as they possess the most aggressive future proof solution using 12Bpp/1000++ fL end game standards. Coupling this with their massive footprint in this business, it feels like that's going to be the go to solution.

I'll leave you all to it, but this will be my last time commenting on this trivial matter. I mean for God's sake it's simple specular White>Dark contrast. It's not rocket science and one doesn't honestly make that much of a difference over the other."
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-f ... st35061425

"FOX is playing it smart since they know that the base layer is all that is required. I don't know their plan with secondary if they even care to partner up with anyone or not. Sharp and Vizio are on Dolby's side for instance, but Samsung didn't feel it was necessary right now, lacking 12Bit displays that Dolby seems to want so badly.

Any DV (for instance) UHD-BD will contain the base SMPTE HDR layer with a metadata extension that upcoming players and displays will be required to support. If your TV and Player don't both support the secondary layer, they will simply ignore it and still display HDRI.

Concerning whether I like one over the other; I personally like both, and the reason for that is simply because they each target specific areas in images to focus on and for some, they may prefer one over the other for peak brightness reasons alone.

I'm sure in a dark viewing environment one might not care for the method that shoots up to 400fL. If they didn't like it then the players would simply have a toggle setting aptly named Dark Room HDR or something like that. Do I see a difference between the two?, sure. It's just nothing to write home about and wait a long time on."
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lcd-f ... st35061673


L'avis d'un autre expert :

"“Not all metadata is equal. There is static metadata and dynamic metadata“

So, to reiterate again for new readers….

For HDR10….think static metadata.

For Dolby Vision….think dynamic metadata….meaning every time the scene changes in a movie, there is a new set of metadata that informs the display management engine inside a Dolby Vision television on how best to map the color volume of the source content.....and remember....color volume is the combination of the dynamic range and the color gamut (http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php ... st11011071)

So, for those who don’t catch the drift nor venture into a mastering suite, as far as ‘Premium’ HDR content for movies in terms of elegance…..
Dolby Vision > HDR10 > ST 2084 with no metadata > plain old SDR

Now, as a footnote, not to give Dolby all the HDR accolades because the PQ approach (Dolby) actually codes the picture on a reference display and needs metadata to do so…..with regards to broadcast of live content (sports and such) you don’t have reference displays nor the luxury of a lot of time; ergo, the Hybrid Log Gamma approach in which coding what the camera sees in the signal is an appetizing solution for live material."
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.php?p ... count=6570


Concernant son opinion sur Dolby Vision vs. BBC/NHK HDR Hybrid Log Gamma pour le Live Broadcast, je pense que l'on peut se dispenser de moniteur de référence de post-production avec un ou plusieurs étalonneurs comme dans les labo de post-production de films : il suffirait d'avoir un étalonnage automatique avec des jeux de paramètres préconfigurés (i.e. automatic grading ou "automatic content mapping").
http://www.hdfever.fr/forum/viewtopic.p ... 55#p193455

[matt35]

En gros pas de soucis avec le JS9500 car il est compatible HDR 10 donc ?

[DanBa]

Après Vizio, Skyworth, LG, TCL et Philips, Changhong adopte aussi Dolby Vision pour ses TV OLED haut de gamme :
https://www.avforums.com/video/video-ch ... -tvs.12254

[nico.ch]

Matt: pas de soucis pour vos js9500, ils liront sans problèmes le standard de base (HDR10), même lorsque vous achèterez un Ultra HD Blu-ray estampillé Dolby Vision et le lirez avec un lecteur non DV.

Pour DanBa: effectivement, on peut tout à fait envisager une sorte de grading automatique pour le live broadcast, mais j'avais plutôt l'impression que cela se ferait par hybrid log justement... on aura sans doute bientôt la réponse. Dolby a bien compris que l'universalité de leur package VS10 était un pré-requis pour son adoption sur une large échelle par les différents acteurs. Ainsi au State, Vudu propose encore des films Dolby Vision incompatibles avec le HDR10 apparement, selon les retours des utilisateurs de ce service ayant des écrans Samsung. Mais cela devrait changer bientôt grâce au VS10 justement, dont Netflix à d'ores et déjà annoncé l'adoption.

C'était assez malin de la part de Dolby de tabler sur les créateurs de contenus (Majors) pour faire adopter de facto par la suite leur version comme standard par l'ensemble des acteurs. En gros, il n'y a plus que la Fox qui n'aie pas encore adopté Dolby Vision, tout les autres se sont ralliés.

[DanBa]

Les nouveaux TV haut de gamme de Philips sont compatibles Dolby Vision, aussi bien que le lecteur UHD Blu-ray Philips BDP7501 selon Robert Zohn.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php ... st11708364

A ma connaissance, le Philips BDP7501 est le seul lecteur UHD Blu-ray qui est compatible Dolby Vision (et évidemment HDR10) à cet instant.

Le lecteur UHD Blu-ray Philips BDP7501 n'est pas compatible Dolby Vision.
http://www.valueelectronics.com/uploads ... DP7501.pdf
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php ... st11716996

"Philips BDP7501 spec is up to 10,000nits so it seems to have the the light output to support Dolby Vision. I don't know the chip set used.
I will be in touch with Philips to see if an update is possible and planned for Dolby Vision HDR."

[nico.ch]

Merci Phil, pour l'interview du manager de Dolby par Steve de AVForum. Il confirme donc la rétro-compatibilité parfaite de Dolby Vision VS10 avec les standard existants (rec 709) et la couche de HDR10 standard.

Plus intéressant, il promet que le processus de re-mastering en HDR à partir de négatifs de films anciens sera effectué dans tous les cas avec l'accord des ayants-droits, et dans la mesure du possible avec les créatifs à la base de ces mêmes films, de façon à être sûr que l'on ne dénature pas un film appartenant au patrimoine par un grading trop agressif. Selon lui, si une grande quantité des oeuvres en back catalogue ont été filmés dans la perspective d'une sortie cinéma n'excédant pas les standards de l'époque, et donc difficilement exploitable pour une version HDR, une partie non négligeable, ceux filmés en super 35mm et 65mm, peuvent faire l'objet d'un re-mastering adéquat. Pour autant que leurs ayant-droits le souhaitent.

La perspective de revoir certains chef-d'oeuvres des 40 dernières années en version HDR me fait déjà saliver...

[DanBa]

"Christopher is responsible for Film Scanning, Image Processing, R&D, & Film Editorial.

PARTIAL LIST of COMPLETED PROJECTS:

5K HDR Scanning & Image Processing for 4k UHD & Dolby Vision™ Remastering:
MIRAMAX: 'PULP FICTION' (1994)"
https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherdusendschon

[DanBa]

Sony Electronics adopterait Dolby Vision :
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/categories/tv.html



Le lien Sony de la page des "TV compatibles Dolby Vision" de Dolby pointe vers Sony Electronics, et non vers Sony Pictures qui a déjà annoncé la production et la distribution de films compatibles Dolby Vision.
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/2 ... laboration